Visit me at: www.ericthecarguy.com

EricTheCarGuy channel: www.youtube.com/user/EricTheCarGuy/featured

This has been something of an ongoing discussion on ETCG1, the flat rate system. This is the system which is wildly used in the repair industry to pay technicians. Some like it but many don't. Recently I read an article about some technicians in California that had brought a lawsuit against their employer because of the flat rate system. This video talks a bit about that as well as the implications of the case. I look forward to your comments. Here are some links mentioned in the video along with a link to the article that inspired the video.

Article that inspired this video: www.searchautoparts.com/abrn/collision-news-general/california-case-calls-flat-rate-question

The Flat Rate System: automobilrevue.net/v/UWEzNU5ZR2JtbWs

The Flat Rate System Revisited: automobilrevue.net/v/bnlWTmY0UlZjTWM

The Labor Shift: automobilrevue.net/v/ZGhYeTFvSFlfTkE

Discussion about this video: www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/17-ETCG1-Video-Discussions/44986-is-flat-rate-fair#58681

Stay Dirty

ETCG1

Comments

    • Robert
      Robert

      Flat rate system is antiquated. It was developed in the 30s when cars, owner expectations of the car and laws were simpler. It was a good system in those simpler days when quantity of work was the main focus. The system rewards those who can do the job faster and rightfully so. Quality of work back then was easier to achieve due to the simplicity of the times. Car repairs were simple and done fast. The technician, the dealership and the consumer all win. Fast forward to present day.....the car, the owners’ expectations and laws have evolved but not the flat rate system. The drivers of the evolution are emissions, safety and CAFE standards, cost of ownership and how consumers view and own their cars.
      Present day car emissions and mileage/MPG are astronomically better than 20 years ago. We can almost breathe the tailpipe emissions these days. Some four cylinder mid size sedans are getting 30, 40 MPG easy. These numbers were fictional 20 years ago. To achieve these numbers, car manufacturers have engineered these cars with complex computer controlled emissions systems and state of the art materials and mechanical systems. When these systems break down, it is one hell of a puzzle to solve. The technician’s skills and knowledge of the car has to be up there to diagnose and solve it. When the solution is found and the repair is done, the flat rate system only pays for the repair time and not the time spent on the diagnosis. When the manufacturer does pay warranty claim for the diagnosis, it is not for the full time spent and you have to jump through a lot of paperwork hoops to get it.
      Safety systems on present day cars are exponentially better than cars just made 5 years ago. Lasers, radars, cameras and sensors all work together to keep the driver and others around him safe. But these complicated systems gave birth to complicated repairs. You can’t replace anything these days with out calibrating something. These calibrations can not be a corner to cut since the car and driver are relying on these safety systems. A simple bumper skin or windshield replacement requires a calibration that takes an hour that warranty is reluctant to pay.
      The biggest change that affected technicians is the cost of ownership of the car. Car manufacturers have engineered the maintenance out of these cars, which is great as all of us are consumers. Oil changes are done at triple the miles, 10000 miles instead of 3000. Transmissions are sealed and use a “lifetime fluid” that eliminated transmission services. Coolants are now rated as super long life coolants and are exchanged at 90000/100000 miles, versus the 30000 mile interval they used to have. Fuel filters are not an interval maintenance item anymore. Timing belts are a thing of the past. These are all done for us the consumer to spend less maintaining the car. Unfortunately as technicians, we see the results in a different perspective.
      Looking forward, the ownership of the car is evolving. Majority of consumers are keeping their cars less. The next generation view their cars like they view their phones. Last years model is old, have to get the new one. With this kind of ownership, the car is always under warranty and maintenance is minimal. The dealership technician’s job has changed with this type of ownership and is still subject to change as the evolution of transportation keeps going.
      The flat rate system is the big elephant in the room that everyone needs to talk about and address. Everyone includes the car manufacturers, their dealerships and the branches of government that governs them, not just the technicians. I don’t know what the solution is. But acknowledging the problem is the first step to one.

      about 7 months ago
    • Richard Elliott
      Richard Elliott

      the flat system is good as long as it is basis off of real life repairs not basis off of work done on the line at the factory.nit is quicker to replace the back plugs on a fwd vehicle when the engine is not in the car.

      about 7 months ago
    • MrErikw26
      MrErikw26

      16 years of not making a living and I'm hanging it up, I'm done with this crap, I've grown to absolutely hate it.

      about 7 months ago
    • Phillip Allen
      Phillip Allen

      When they went from 50/50 to flat rate we lost money.

      about 8 months ago
    • MrErikw26
      MrErikw26 In reply to Phillip Allen

      Big time.

      about 7 months ago
    • Mike Henley
      Mike Henley

      I made a good living on flat rate until they extended the service interval. There used to be a balance of warranty work and service and customer repair work and it all seem to come out in the wash at the end of the week. This is why I went to fleet work.

      about 8 months ago
    • Brad85
      Brad85

      definitely an old video but good one... i went to school for mechanics.. i worked for 2 ford dealerships til i decided to get outta the bullshit.. but i learned this.. you get your ass handed to you by one job.. youll remember that and what happened.. its learning experience...

      about 11 months ago
    • Marko Poko
      Marko Poko

      I worked for pepboys for 5 years and it seems that can make more. I tired of sitting down waiting for a car or putting up tires because Noone acts like they don't know how and I tell them I don't get paid by the tire I put up but by the car I work on so I going to the dealership, Toyota specifically to see a difference.

      about 1 year ago
    • MrErikw26
      MrErikw26 In reply to Marko Poko

      Best of luck to you

      about 7 months ago
    • Randy
      Randy

      The best place flat rate works is the dealer where you work on the same vehicles doing the same repairs day after day with factory support and equipment. You get very fast doing the same thing over and over but it's different at an independent shop where one minute your're working on a mercedes or bmw the next minute a ford. Try working on some of these vehicles at a small shop where repair information is unavailable. You'll find yourself working on vehicles you've never even seen before without any factory service information or special tools that may be required while trying to beat the flat rate time and a lot of times it doesn't work out for the tech . You 'll find yourself working on vehicles from new to old , good condition to junk because most independent shops will take in anything that's driven or towed in regardless of year , make or model and you're expected, may be on your first time , to do the repair as fast as the guy at the dealer that may have done that same repair hundreds of times .

      about 1 year ago
    • MrErikw26
      MrErikw26 In reply to Randy

      The dealer is not the promised land its purported to be, I started at a dealer a year ago, I'm in HELL

      about 7 months ago
    • cfmcc83
      cfmcc83 In reply to Randy

      Both have their pro's and con's for dealer vs independent shops. I worked for a Audi dealer for 4 years when I started in the industry. Yes, I got fast doing the same job over and over. But if any of the paper work was wrong. I did not get paid. As far as the equipment went. Only 1 tool for the whole shop, and it would get "lost" in someones tool box after a few weeks, and I would have to go asking everyone who has it. I remember when the A3 first came out and I had to look up some information and the info was still in German. When I went to the independent side (not a chain) I make just as much money and some years more. You do work on all makes and models but you can get info. IATN, Identafix, Mitchell, and Alldata are good resources to find info. You just have to know where to look. You can inspect the car before writing a est. and see if it has rust or someone has done some shade tree work, or some parts (plastic or rubber) are going to break during removal. Then you can quote more time or parts are needed, and explain why. Flat rate can be good and bad. I love working 40 hours and making 50-60, being honest and doing good work. If shops were hourly they would still judge you on a efficiency rating. I have asked my boss how he would work if we were hourly? He said if a tech was below 125% efficient he would look to replace that tech. That is how he does it now, He expects 125%. That way, everyone is happy. The tech is sitting around 50hrs a week and the shop is making money. My issue with those who hate flat rate are people who can not work in a professional auto repair environment. They are not bad techs, but can not or choose not to be efficient.

      about 1 year ago
    • Cana box
      Cana box

      Warranty flat rate can be good if you get good at it. I remember my brother worked nat a Ford store in the 80s. They had a problem with the V8 engines in pickup trucks. He got the block, the crank, the bearings and the gaskets. He had to change every thing else over. He worked every day fro 8.00AM to 11.00. Making stupid money!

      about 1 year ago
    • William Tran
      William Tran

      Some techs say it’s because you’re lazy as the reason for not making money. I’ve hustled and made 6 hrs. I’ve walked and made 12 hrs. Flat-rate strictly depends on the work you get dispatched. Also if you beat the warranty time by a considerable amount of time you’re doing some shady shit. Don’t bullshit me. From a tech to a tech you can’t bullshit me. If you can beat a warranty job by a certain time you just cut one hell of a corner. Neither by not doing the job or cutting and breaking something so you don’t have to take something off. Flat-Rate is bullshit! But if people say you can make a shit load of money by not cutting corners I call bullshit!

      about 1 year ago
    • Deadeye1983
      Deadeye1983

      i was lucky i was given an option i could get a flat rate of 20 an hour or take 15 per hour i took the 15 per hour. the main reason was this, i took a hard look at what was coning into the dealership and what i would get if i went flat rate and it worked out to be the same in my check. the volume of work meant there would be times i would have no cars so do i want to stand around for 4 or 5 hours and only get a oil change and a rotate that payed 0.9 flat rate or would i only work for one hour and make 8. so i took the hourly pay. now i know i lose on some jobs. i.e. transmissions or engine work but at the same time i know how much i will make with every pay check.
      now i have worked at places where you would get a low hourly pay but make commission on what you did witch was nice. in a place like that you might make 7.25 base hourly but on that same oil change and rotate you would also make 5 more dollars on commission and that could add up very fast.

      about 1 year ago
    • Average Technician
      Average Technician

      Do a airbag recall on a 2018 jeep compass, pull dash, pays 2.6... one of those fuck flat rate days

      about 1 year ago
    • Reel Tech
      Reel Tech

      I don't know where the rest of you guys are at. But here in Michigan. We have three car repair seasons. we have first, when everybody gets out of school. Because now they have time to wait for their cars to get fixed. We have deer hit season. from the middle of November till the middle of December 1 in 85 cars on the road in Michigan will be involved in a deer Collision. and we have the first snowfall. which could happen anytime from mid-september till the beginning of January. And during the first snowfall everybody smashes their car at the same time. this first snowfall mess usually takes about 2 months to clean up in the accident industry. sometimes first snowfall and deer season overlap. those who have been in a deer collision and can still drive their car, wait till spring or summer to get their car fixed. this means, in Michigan we have approximately 6 months of starvation in the flat rate system. And then to top it off. no other state in the United States, uses as much salt or deicer on their roads, as Michigan. the before de-icer oh, your car would rot out within 5 or 6 years. since they've started using de-icer on the roads, 3 years. your car is a total piece of crap after 3 years. and I've been watching this go down for 25 years. no rust typically is in a problem with run ability until, a frame rail gets bent. Or radiator support is wasted. the lack of Integrity in the metal, because of the rust, causes these cars to be totaled out much quicker than if they were in the same type of accident in Arizona. as an auto body heavy frame technician on flat rate, I have approximately three months to make enough money to carry me through 6 months of starvation. As a direct repair program shop, the insurance companies total out cars faster than we can repair them. This leaves a significant lack of work in our Market. And just because a car is new, doesn't mean it doesn't need repairs. warranty x 1/2 in Auto Body. we do have a severe Duty category in our labor guides, because of the rust on our cars. but severely Duty, must be documented thoroughly with pictures to prove the car is rotted out and dying of cancer. this process can take upwards of one month to get paid on. and if you call insurance companies such as your good neighbor or the good hands people, they can be buried in appraisals from the first snowfall, for up to but not excluding three to four weeks. what I'm trying to say is, the flat rate system is great to get you through the winter. You blow most of your money on Christmas. the rest of the money gets to bills and other financial obligations. But Michigan, you might as well take the summer off. we used to have legitimate sales people in this industry that could keep us working year round. now all we have is insurance company Yes Men that do the bare minimum. And get maximum reward. And by maximum reward I mean, all the people that work around the flat rate technician . are usually on salary. and that salary is usually 2 to 3 times more then the flat rate technicians annual income. something to truly consider here is, none of those shirts and ties have to own a tool box. none of those suits have to actually turn a wrench. they are guaranteed a wage that they can take to the bank and Finance on. a flat rate technician in this state understands one thing in life to be true, there are no guarantees in this life. And when you cannot guarantee an income. You cannot take it to the bank. you can't buy new cars. You can't buy a new house. You can't even afford an apartment. But the saddest part of being a flat rate technician in this country is, mechanics built this country period starting in the assembly line of Ford Motor Company. The company that built America literally from the ground up. Henry Ford use the $5 an hour wage to create the middle class. those same mechanics built roads and gas stations and stores and tourist attractions. and helped this Society go further than it had ever gone by foot. 100 years later, we are considered scum of the Earth. as far as I'm concerned, you can take the flat rate system, middle management, and the insurance companies. ( where do you think that 15% or more savings comes from? a mechanic's take-home pay) and the whole Ponzi scheme and stick it Square where the sun doesn't shine. after 25 years in this business the day of my retirement was the best day of my life. I just wish I would have retired from the automotive industry in California or Arizona. because, then I'd have some money to live off from for the next 25 years. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to spend another 25 years in the workforce just to retire. but not in the automotive industry. I literally wasted 25 years of my time fucking around with the bulshit from the dealerships in the insurance companies. as well as dealing with some of the most ignorant people on the planet. and for that I have no problem throwing both middle fingers in the air and tip in the fuck out the door. but at least my snap on bill is paid. Only took 20 years to do that. working on cars has been the worst career choice I could have ever made. what was supposed to be a career that took me wherever I wanted to go . turned into a job that kept me just over broke.

      about 1 year ago
    • Shaun Savoury
      Shaun Savoury In reply to Reel Tech

      This is a sad story and feels to the person like a total waste due to the experience but it is PURE FACT.

      about 1 year ago
    • Sean Kandel
      Sean Kandel

      Flat rate is a scam! It`s fraud! Manufactures wont release legit repair times since they`re not in the business of supporting people! They`d rather under cut the tech`s to fund their engineering personal or the race teams

      about 1 year ago
    • sabe909
      sabe909

      https://www.change.org/p/aden-giraud-change-in-automotive-dealership-technician-labor-laws
      That is why i leaving Auto shop and going to construction till thing's change flat rate is crime I am there 40 hours i should get paid 40 hour's not my dam shit you cant bring work in. Work fast to make money no sorry wrong why not we have airplane mechanic do that why we start to see plane's falling from the sky..... and sorry for low wage i go to taco bell and get that.

      about 1 year ago
    • Oblithian
      Oblithian

      I would just pay them hourly. There are a lot of other methods to motivate or encourage employee productivity. Flat rate also encourages halfassing the job (in terms of quality not speed).

      about 1 year ago
    • Mark Ferraro
      Mark Ferraro

      great video Eric thanks

      about 1 year ago
    • Justin Soluna
      Justin Soluna

      My problem with flat rate is primarily that it does not lend itself to quality work. It is most tailored toward the tech who is fast and knows how to cut corners intelligently. As a flat rate tech you are constantly battling the clock, a mindset which makes the quality of the repair take a backseat. I tried it out and it was not for me. Some techs are wired this way, and good for them. I am not. I work best when I take my time, can focus on the system and the problem, understand it thoroughly, and put quality above all else.

      For that reason I think flat rate also took the passion out of wrenching for me.

      about 1 year ago
    • Greasy nPoor
      Greasy nPoor

      that lawsuit he just spoke of has made me alot of money. sue ur employers when u dont get paid. sue sue sue. :) made almost 30k so far and didnt have to turn a wrench. just learn the laws and dont be a wuss take em to court!

      about 1 year ago
    • Helal Sulieman
      Helal Sulieman

      I think it's changing now

      about 1 year ago
    • Maxwell Peter
      Maxwell Peter

      flat rate is for the shop not the tech . techs that get paid hourly get lazy and milk the clock . been at a shop that paid hourly and the other two techs couldn't ever get their efficiency up so the manager pumped up our pay and turned us flat rate . one guy left the other found his lost speed . flat rate is a proven system for shops to not be over charge customer and the tech stays motivated . so f you don't trust your shop or your tech . why are you going there

      about 2 years ago
    • RedneckManWV99
      RedneckManWV99 In reply to Maxwell Peter

      Not gonna disagree with you there!!!

      I think that flat rate would be the best pay system IF you were guaranteed 40 hours a week no matter how dead the shop is, and if the shop is willing to bill for extra "side projects" that are beyond the scope of the normal work involved, such as dealing with rust.

      My personal approach to flat rate when quoting side jobs is to take the customer pay time and multiply it by 1.5 (e.g. manual says 2 hours I charge 3). If labor times were increased to a more reasonable level (customer pay not so much in most cases, but warranty for sure) I think it would be so much better.

      But that still leaves plenty of room for favoritism and many other ways that the flat rate system is exploited by both the manufacturer and dealership at the expense of the tech.
      .
      That's why I'm in favor of a base salary + commission, that way the dealer can't get away with having you stand around for half the day with no work "because it might get busy", nor can they starve out a tech they don't like or feed the shop favorite. The base salary would guarantee 40 hours a week, and the commission would incentivize them to produce more, but only to the point that the quality of work does not suffer. I've seen many horror stories played out in real life in my time at the dealership, all in the name of "gotta get it done now".

      about 1 year ago
    • Maxwell Peter
      Maxwell Peter In reply to Maxwell Peter

      RedneckManWV99 sounds like you worked for a shit shop

      about 1 year ago
    • RedneckManWV99
      RedneckManWV99 In reply to Maxwell Peter

      What are your thoughts on billing more time with cars that are all rusted up? Like if you go to do a fuel filter and the bolts snap off in the body, does the tech just eat that time to repair it or do you charge the customer for it? That's my main problem in dealing with rusty vehicles, I'm fine if I'm getting paid for it, but just expecting me to do it for free because "that's what the book says" is completely ridiculous. That's why I like quoting out side jobs, I give them a price that I'm comfortable with and they either take it or leave it. There's none of this crap of the service writer underselling the job in order to make the sale and get their commission, or in order to get a good survey from the customer.

      And what about all the other times that you're not paid for under flat rate, such as spending half an hour looking for a car in the lot because the customer parked it in an out of the way place, the keyfob is dead so the horn doesn't go off, or horn inop, the porter taking their sweet time washing it, or the service manager took it to get breakfast/lunch/etc. Or when you spend two hours chasing down a problem under warranty that you don't get paid for and find nothing. Warranty doesn't pay if no parts are replaced. And I can't just go grab an RO off the stack, I'm assigned jobs by the service writers, so I have to take what I'm given.

      I'm saying under flat rate there's too much room for the manufacturer/dealership/shop to screw the tech over, such as by feeding all the gravy work to the shop favorite or starving out the guy that doesn't go along with the shop politics. The emphasis in a repair shop should be quality, not quantity. I have no problem with working efficiently and using your time wisely, but as I said before there's a tipping point where you can only go so fast and still do a quality job before you start cutting corners.

      I've seen it many times, the service writer is hounding the tech to get the car done and out, and they'll just say "Screw it, that diff service is done" and not do it. They are pushing you to be fast to the point of absurdity and the quality of work WILL suffer because of it, to the point where things just won't be done or they'll be hacked up.

      As I said before, they would rather have something done fast but done half assed than something done slower but done right. I had a saying at the dealership "Waiters gonna wait" and every time a service writer or the manager would hound me to get something done faster, I would intentionally work slower and not let them undermine the work that I'm doing by falsely thinking it could be done in 10 minutes. I'm not just some grease monkey changing oil, I have people's lives in my hands, and pushing me to be so unreasonably fast is how mistakes get made and people get hurt/killed. I was paid hourly BTW, I refuse to work flat rape in a state with as much rust as mine when the service department isn't willing to bill for those extra "projects" that come along as a result of rust.

      P.S. Another thing killing this industry is the pencil pusher managers and service writers who've never worked on a car in their life, have no idea what it actually takes to fix a car, couldn't tell a spark plug from an O2 sensor, and are only concerned with numbers and sales. People who have no experience whatsoever in servicing vehicles have no place in a management/supervisor position. I've always said that engineers should be required to be techs before becoming engineers so they won't do lots of the stupid things they do, and I believe the same thing about service managers/writers. When you only understand something as a concept, not in a real life, practical sense, then you don't really understand it at all, and don't belong in that position.

      about 1 year ago
    • Maxwell Peter
      Maxwell Peter In reply to Maxwell Peter

      RedneckManWV99 I live in the rust belt and I kill most jobs I do and I do it all waiting on parts if your waiting then you haven't effectively managed your time

      about 1 year ago
    • RedneckManWV99
      RedneckManWV99 In reply to Maxwell Peter

      Flat rate is alright in states with no rust, as long as it's customer pay and not warranty work. But in states in the rust belt, you're almost guaranteed to lose your ass on most jobs due to dealing with rusty fasteners, broken bolts, seized parts, etc.

      And most shops don't see these extra "projects" that occur during these jobs as "billable hours", the tech just has to eat that time. For example, if you're replacing brake lines and you go to bleed them and the bleeder snaps off in the caliper, most shops will just charge the customer for the caliper and make the tech eat the cost of replacing the caliper. The flat rate manual was calculated using brand new vehicles, not ones that have seen salt and been through the abuse that customers put them through. Also, most service writers are more concerned about their commission and making a sale than actually quoting out the job properly, so most of them will undersell work in order to sweeten the deal for the customer and so they make their commission, who has to eat the time they didn't bill for? The tech, of course.

      There's way too many service writers out there who know next to nothing about cars or the time it takes to actually fix one, they are only concerned with their commission, kickbacks from services and getting good customer surveys. They couldn't care less if they sold a 10 hour job for 6 hours , because they still made their cut, but the tech loses out.

      Also, what about all the times that you're not paid for on flat rate, i.e. waiting on parts, waiting on an ok, looking for a car in the parking lot so you can bring it in, rounding up a few other guys to help you push a car in, or having to walk clear back to the shop (which can be very far in a multi-dealership car lot) to get the battery charger because the car is dead, waiting for service writer to get off phone/get done talking to customer, road tests, getting parts prices, going on rides with customers for free, etc.

      My point is, unless you live in a rust free state in a shop that's constantly busy and doesn't have to deal with warranty work, it is very hard to make a decent living on flat rate. Then you throw in the politics of a dealership (i.e. favoritism, service writer/manager doesn't like you, giving you all the crap jobs to try and starve someone out, etc.) and you have a very caustic situation on your hands. And on top of it all it pits all the techs against each other when they should be working together to fight the dealership for more pay. But no, the dealership wants to keep techs squabbling among st themselves so they can run off with all the money. It's always a pissing match of "so and so's getting all the gravy work, so and so gets stuck with all the warranty jobs, etc."

      Pay techs either by the hour or a base salary+commission, that way they are guaranteed a paycheck when the shop is dead, and they can still make more by being more productive. If someone is lazy and milking jobs on hourly pay, have a talk with them about it and if things don't improve it's time to let them go. Just like in any other industry. In what other job can management get rid of you by literally "starving you out" and not giving you any work or pay? It's just another way for shops to passive aggressively manipulate things without actually having to deal with them like an adult.

      about 1 year ago
    • Warren Chambers
      Warren Chambers

      Eric Flat rate is GREAT(or the 1950's) Today see if you can find a labor time for connecting to your P.O.D. or getting the wireless back up, or maybe chasing the warranty clerk to flag your ticket or getting A.D.P to unlock again. Flat rate sucks and so does the rotten slave driven, greedy self centered disconnected Dealership owners. That's why I quit them. I now HAPPLIY work for a independent shop that even has A/C(I work in Atlanta our t-stat stays on hell june-sept). Something those useless NAZI dealers couldn't do for us, but you know there plush office was nice and frosty in the summer. I have heard owners say horrible things about Techs, such as and I Quote" I wouldn't have a shop if ford didn't force me to, if I could I fire all of you" Bill Smith. Stone Mountain Ford also tried telling us we could not have any facial hair(Beard Mustache Go-T) I could go on and on.

      about 2 years ago
    • Nicholas Restaino
      Nicholas Restaino

      I've only been in this for a few years, in that time I've had 2 flat rate jobs and both times been completely screwed over. Never Again!

      about 2 years ago
    • MrErikw26
      MrErikw26 In reply to Nicholas Restaino

      16 years so far getting screwed.

      about 7 months ago
    • Ken
      Ken

      Flat rate sucks sometimes it can be rewarding but thats rare if you get paid shit on hourly and commission rate

      about 2 years ago
    • Mike Dewsberry
      Mike Dewsberry

      Need quality techs not just hacks and parts replaces. Techs that use a volt ohm meter not just a test light those kinds of people are needed.

      about 2 years ago
    • Mike Dewsberry
      Mike Dewsberry In reply to Mike Dewsberry

      Warren Chambers not at all. I used to work as a flat rate tech. Too many makes models and systems to quote be a master tech same for chefs and etc etc etc. Too many liars on both sides of the counter. Smaller shops much better but still the same to a lesser degree.. MASTER TECH IS A TITLE NOT NECESSARILY A REFLECTION OF KNOWLEDGE OR EXPERIENCE. I don't trust any automotive tech or dealership EVER!!!!

      about 2 years ago
    • Warren Chambers
      Warren Chambers In reply to Mike Dewsberry

      Oh well I'm guess A.S.E. Master and holding a Ford master and Chrysler Master are abit to "Specific" Your a either a warranty clerk or service writer aren't you? I do see the frustration in your comments, naybe your tired of getting yelled at for low flag times or getting your ass chewed out by irate customers? I do see those dia inept techs you speak of and theres a reason for it. 1 there lazy 2 they don't know how 3 your not paying for Diag. In this buisness someone has to take the hit(Loss of time) Either the customer pays for the Diag time or the shop or the tech does. Every ticket that comes in the door this happens. If the customers been in there in the last 60 days well the shops not gonna charge for now ck engine light that's back on. 1st thing that comes to mind is techs fault. But is it? did anyone scan it? Takes time to find out, so tech scans it while customers waits(Fully expecting not to pay a dime) Now we find out that a ECM that can shit out over 4,000 codes is giving us an entirely different code so who pays now? Shop? Customer? Tech(We'll he already has cause its done and unless you pay him he's fucked out of his time right?) So Service writer who failed to explain and tight wad Service manager says ah well we'll make it up on the next one. No biggie right? I mean shit it's only 1hr. But what happened while tech pissed his time away? Oh that's right you gave away that good paying job to your ass kissing fishing buddy who never does shit but GRAVEY. So now I'm out 1hr plus what I could have gotten on another job that's been dispatched already. Oh and if I get an attitude your all miffed as to what my "problem" is. So do I tell you next time it's "Hey can you ck this Just real Quick" to fuck off (Cause being ripped off tends to upset people) or try and be helpful?

      about 2 years ago
    • Mike Dewsberry
      Mike Dewsberry In reply to Mike Dewsberry

      Do it correctly explain it correctly and you will get paid. There is no such thing as a master tech in general terms never will be.

      about 2 years ago
    • Warren Chambers
      Warren Chambers In reply to Mike Dewsberry

      Well here I am Mikey, 25 yrs Master tech worn out more than 1 fluke in my day. So PAY ME. Problem is you'll LIE LIE LIE to get me in the door and 6months later your sorry ass is chipping away at what you agreed to. Happened way to many times pal.

      about 2 years ago
    • Mike Dewsberry
      Mike Dewsberry

      integrity honesty and creativity.

      about 2 years ago
    • DieselFume1
      DieselFume1

      In my mind the only reason for flat rate is to scew the mechanic and make the dealership more money... the dealer is better off, the customer is better off, warranty is better off. the guy who isn't better off is the one who has to bust his butt just to meet the deadline, every time. You may say it guards against bad/lazy mechanics- I say let's get back to paying people what they're worth and to hell with minimum wage.

      about 2 years ago
    • Jacob T
      Jacob T In reply to DieselFume1

      DieselFume1 I agree, and if the mechanic is not productive get rid of him.

      about 1 year ago
    • Billy E
      Billy E

      Sounds a lot like being a teacher, you get paid pretty much for the time that you actually have the kids, plus about a half hour before and after school. But, all the time you spend grading papers, writing lesson plans, calling parents, etc is unpaid. You're on a contract for 7 hours per day, everything else is working for free. Usually that's not even enough time to do the bare minimum required of you, let alone 1-on-1 work with kids who have special needs, family drama, discipline, applying for grants, planning fun activities, and everything else that makes a GREAT teacher, not just an average one.

      It's not uncommon for a first year teacher to work 10-12 hour days but only get paid for 7 of them. The longer you've been doing it the more old/leftover stuff you have to fall back on, but even on your last year before retirement you'll still probably be working past your contract hours.

      Now they even have apps like Class Dojo that allow parents to text you at all hours of the night. Imagine that as a mechanic/tech, "Hey bro you changed my oil now my A/C isn't cold, must be your fault, I want it fixed for free"

      about 2 years ago
    • DieselFume1
      DieselFume1 In reply to Billy E

      LoL, that's funny! Alot like being a teacher except you're working on things that are freezing cold, scalding hot, caustic, toxic, can cause long term health effects and require thousands of dollars worth of tools just to be able to work. We also get the customer/boss drama, do not have a teachers union which means we can still get fired/let go after 25 years of tenure (unlike most bad teachers). Did I mention won't don't get 3 months of paid leave every summer? Gosh, I wouldn't know what to do with myself.

      about 2 years ago
    • working shlub
      working shlub

      ive heard many techs say the book time is not even close...they write it like pick up 3/8 ratchet from bench...loosen this bolt...go back to bench pick up 15mm ..walk back to car ..use wrench etc... nothing like it is in the real world.

      about 2 years ago
    • Warren Chambers
      Warren Chambers In reply to working shlub

      They do time studies like this. A tech performs said job 3xs then they take an average of it then cut that time 1/2. But the tool fetching your talking about is free(and so is road testing, Diagnosis, writing an estimate, fetching parts, waiting on the service writer to get off the dam phone) You see the stop watch gets started when the tool touches the car, the minute you pull that wrench of the bolt "Click" time stops. So think of it this way, an 8hr job is 8hrs of actual tool labor(Like digging with a shovel) everything else is on you for free. But wait theres more! All your time guides like Mitchel, Alldata, Motors, chilton etc do not do any time studies. So guess what the already low time gets bumped up say 1-2hrs maybe. Well that gets it closer to reality but its still to low.

      about 2 years ago
    • SuzukiJeff
      SuzukiJeff

      I'll never go back to hourly. Flat rate works great in a busy shop you can create your own destiny. Depends on your shop etc as well. I always get reimbursed one way or the other. I have a guarantee as well but have never had to use it. Even when we are "slow" its still good.

      about 2 years ago